| Author | Topic | | AnonJr
Absent-minded Webmaster
USA
621 Posts |  Posted - 21 Sep 2006 : 22:06:15 
| Found this article and noticed some rather interesting comments.
http://www.canada.com/topics/entertainment/story.html?id=41753537-c41f-4f04-9c43-99def58956ef&k=38747
First, the old-people joke:
quote:
"The tour Iron Maiden is embarking on isn’t the longest they’ve ever undertaken – most members are well into their 50s, after all – but it will take them around the world, with three shows in Canada (Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver), followed by eight in the U.S., four in Japan, and an extensive tour through Europe that will run until the end of 2006."
I guess I'm not the only one making the old-people jokes...
quote:
I [McBrain] truly praise the Lord for being able to carry on with this band, and the blessings that we have to be able to make this kind of music, and still go out there and turn young kids’ heads and they go ‘Crikey, these guys can play! They might be old farts, but listen to that!’
Saw some interesting music-related comments by McBain:
quote:
When it’s pointed out Iron Maiden probably doesn’t need new albums as an excuse for a tour, McBrain reacts as though the thought had never crossed their minds.
“We could probably get away with that, but we don’t want to,” he says. “We want to still make new, cutting-edge, progressive, underground music. You can call it heavy metal, but to me we’re a hard rock band, and we’re really a progressive blues band, to be honest, a bit like (Led) Zeppelin were when they came out.
“We are a very selfish band,” he continues. “We don’t compromise, and people go, ‘Well if you did this or that, you’d have a lot more people come and listen to your band.’ We say, well bollocks, we don’t want to compromise. If people don’t like it the way it is, then we don’t particularly want them.
I find it rather endearing that they don't want to just keep living off the old material. I also like the commitment to being themselves. Though, I have to ask those more familiar with their material, is this a genuine statement or just something to soothe the readers?
I got some kicks out of this dig at a lot of the current artists:
quote:
The album was recorded nearly live, with all members playing their instruments at the same time, and the producer mixing on the fly -- something the vast majority of today’s bands wouldn’t even dream of trying.
I seem to remember some other groups doing it... Van-something-or-other...
Now please don't misunderstand, I'm not knocking them on this. I think that they are seeing something that more bands could find useful... especially when you consider his comment a couple paragraphs down - “Pretty much anything we record, we pride ourselves on being able to actually reproduce it live,” McBrain says.
I'd love to see more of that goin' around!
And an award for the most rambling statement this side of Ozzy: quote:
“At the end of the day, the fan that buys that record is very discerning, he’s going to go to a live show and he’s going to stand in front of the band or the solo artist, whomever it is, and he’s going to go ‘hey that doesn’t sound very good, that’s s--t!,’ you know? So at the end of the day you’re going to get caught, one way or the other. You can dunk your biscuit in it, and if it don’t hold together, it’s going to fall all over the cup of tea.”
I know this has so far been pithy comments and clips from the article... this is largely because I wanted to speed up to the second half - where Nicko McBrain talks about his conversion to Christianity.
With the bulk of the statements in the second half of the article, I'd have topical material for at least 5 good sermons. (I guess I know what I'll be hearing about the next few Sunday's Axeman is preaching  )
There are a lot of comments that are very revealing about the "typical" Christian. Like: quote:
The usual question I’ve [McBrain] been approached with is people coming up to me and going, ‘How can you play Number of the Beast?’
And part of his answer (you really ought to read the rest)
quote:
It doesn’t take an Einstein to listen to the records and listen to the lyrics of the songs to know what’s going on.
.
.
.
“But when you become a Christian, you don’t become sinless, the idea is to sin less. We’re all sinners, we’re never going to be clean till the day the good Lord is standing in front and judgment comes, but to me, I try to live my life, I do fall off, and occasionally I fall off hard and I have to get down on my knees and beg forgiveness, so it’s not an easy ride, and it’s not professed to be either.”
Wow. That's a rather deep statement for an '80s metal rocker. (kidding about the second part)
Last joke: looks like he still might need to work on that vanity thing - quote:
And best of all, he adds, “I’m still the best-looking one in the band.”
|
There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole government working for you.
- Will Rogers |
| Shredhead
Junior Member
Australia
322 Posts | Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 00:09:45
| These ones are pretty cool too . I found the link on FS .
I especially liked the dude from Korn , great testimony .
http://www.godscare.net/witness/index.htm |
but some of you need to be awakened and slapped silly - William D Rauser |  |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 10:15:03
| Of all of them, I personally think that Welch from Korn and McBrain from Maiden are the most credible. Well, and the guy from Dark Angel. I don't wish to sound judgemental, and I may very well be wrong, and I realize that God changes different folks in different ways, but I have to question the validity of some of them, simply by the fruit of their testimonies.
But, I will be happy to be mistaken, and if they came to my church, they would be welcomed as they are. I just don't wish to get all caught up in the hoopla, just because some of my heroes and peers throw Jesus' name around. Real Christians experience real change. They are not the same package with a fancy new label put on the old bottle.
We saw this phenomenon with Eric Clapton in the 70's, and a few others. And yet they do not seem to be any different than before. The people for whom I think (and this is just my limited opinion) real faith manifests itself are the one's that actually step away from the music profession (like Welch), at least for a time. I am not saying that they cannot play in secular music, or even with their original band. But even the Apostle Paul, after experiencing Jesus on the road to Damascus (while he was on the way to persecute the Church as Saul of Tarsus)had to go into a spiritual exile for a short time, before he could start his ministry.
I am not willing to cast aside any of those experiences as disingenuous. I have no clue. But I am also unwilling to celebrate until I feel fairly certain that there is new fruit coming from the vine. Forgive my pessimism, but that is how the unconverted weeded their way into the Church leadership through the centuries, and causing ill-repute to fall on the real faithful. The Bible tells us that satan can appear as an angel of light, and so can his servants. I am not saying that these guys are servants of satan, but that deception is possible. |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| AnonJr
Absent-minded Webmaster
USA
621 Posts | Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 13:01:05
| Interesting site. I remember hearing about Welch when it happened.
I don't know that stepping away from the profession (even for a little while) is necessarily a sign one way or another about a person's conversion. Having said that, I think that you are right in saying that their should be evidence of change or at least the evidence of a genuine attempt to change.
Now this raises an interesting question, what sorts of things would indicate a genuine change/attempt at change? Is there a specific list or is it mostly situational? |
There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole government working for you.
- Will Rogers | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 22:46:52
| I would think that it is mostly situational. However, I do tend to think that certain things are obvious. For example, the Bible tells us that if a man, before his conversion to Christ, used to steal, then he must steal no longer, but put his hands to work. Or if you were a fornicator, you must stop being sexually impure. Or if you were given to chasing money (greed) then you must become generous. Now, each one of those things are different for different folks. However, the influence to continue to behave that way usually remain in certain professions. And it may require an exile of someone, from the situation, who is weak in the Faith, in order to keep their focus on God.
One famous person that I can think of is "Vanity" (I do not know her real name), who used to be one of Prince's back up singers. She had it all: fame, fortune, movie deals, a beautiful body, a wonderful singing voice, and money. But one day, she looked in her closet for something to wear, and all she saw was lingerie. It was rare that she was dressed in normal clothes. She said to herself, "Is this all there is to my life, lingerie and sexually arousing attire?" So she sought out God, she got saved, and she left her lucrative career, fame, and fortune. I had always wondered what had happened to her, until I saw her on "Entertainment Tonight"'s "Where Are They Now" segment. Turns out, she was still singing, but in this little country church, and she had left behind her stage name "Vanity". And she didn't care one whit about not having any of the old life, because that life only pulled her in a "destructive direction" (her words).
I am not saying that should be everyone's decision. I am perfectly okay with people being Christian, but with secular professions.Many of us do that anyway, although in much less famous positions. But we must also remember that the road of fame often produces easier access to certain kinds of temptations, demands, and pressures. The late Sam Kinison even told a story in his comedy act of how many people thought that because he was a famous person, he could do superhuman amounts of cocaine. It was almost expected of him.
Jesus told us that we should judge by the fruit we see. I realize that can be vague at times, as we don't always have all of the information to form fair and proper judgements. That said, I think it is probably safe to say that if you are trying to quit alcohol addiction, you probably shouldn't be working at a bar. Maybe you could do it, but should you do it?
|
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" |
Edited by - AXEMAN2415 on 23 Sep 2006 22:48:18 | |
| Shredhead
Junior Member
Australia
322 Posts | Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 06:08:39
| Jesus said to judge a tree by it's fruit . Are we to take it that Jesus meant righteous works ? I don't believe that's what He meant . There's a lot of morally upright people that are going to hell , because they don't know Jesus as their Lord & Savior . So , for this reason I don't believe we can judge a persons' salvation or credability by their works .Jesus also said to beware of wolves in sheeps clothing , that's people that look like Christians , talk like Christians , act like Christians , but seek only to divide the body & devour the weak .So again , judging by outward appearances/works would seem deceptive at best .
I believe the fruit that Jesus spoke of could be the fruits of the Spirit . To me , it was these fruits that distinguished people like the apostle Paul . After everything Paul endured for the gospels' sake , from secular people & his own bretheren , he still managed to ' count it all joy ' . That's certainly the sort of evidence I want in my life , to be able to face half the things Paul did , & not loose my peace , my patience , my joy , to still be able to love my enemies etc .
How does this relate to people like Alice ? only time & tribulation will tell where their foundations are built , same as us .
I think the difference with people like Clapton , Jackson Brown , Leon Russell & all the others that were happy to jump on the 'Jesus band wagon' back in the 70's .....was that really 30 yrs ago ?? lol , is that back then , the idea was popular , the Jesus movement was in full swing . I wouldn't say it's as popular today to call yourself a Christian , {well certainly not down here it's not }, as it was at the height of the Jesus movement . Incidentally , the song by Clapton ' Presence of the Lord ' , was actually a song about him finding a place where the police couldn't find him , so he could take his drugs .
I guess the question I have , is if these people are lying , why ? money ? , fame ? , power ? all these things they already have . I'd agree , if you have a problem with alcohol it would seem foolishness to frequent places or situations where you'll find yourself tempted , Jesus said to run from temptation , not to it . But then , if Jesus has just set you free from an addiction , isn't it only 'natural' that you'd want to share your faith with those that are still where you once were ?
Just some thoughts .
|
but some of you need to be awakened and slapped silly - William D Rauser | |
| AnonJr
Absent-minded Webmaster
USA
621 Posts | Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 10:18:29
| quote:
Originally posted by Shredhead
I guess the question I have , is if these people are lying , why ? money ? , fame ? , power ? all these things they already have.
I ponder this question too. The only answer that I've been able to come up with - that makes any real sense - is that they are looking for acceptance.
The world may say they don't care about us. They may score us and our ways. But, I suspect they are trying to get God's approval via proxy. (Or maybe I need to go put on another pot of coffee and think on this one some more.  ) |
There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole government working for you.
- Will Rogers | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 14:56:03
| quote:
Jesus said to judge a tree by it's fruit . Are we to take it that Jesus meant righteous works ? I don't believe that's what He meant . There's a lot of morally upright people that are going to hell , because they don't know Jesus as their Lord & Savior . So , for this reason I don't believe we can judge a persons' salvation or credability by their works .Jesus also said to beware of wolves in sheeps clothing , that's people that look like Christians , talk like Christians , act like Christians , but seek only to divide the body & devour the weak .So again , judging by outward appearances/works would seem deceptive at best .
Shred, there is certainly a surface validity to your point. I realize that where man looks at the outside of a man, God looks at the heart. Clearly, God only has the complete picture. To judge a person's salvation based only on the external is frivolous at best.
However, since we only have the external to go on, it would seem that, deception aside, those of us with the Spirit in our lives should be able to discern, with reasonable facility, the real from the counterfeit, just based on the actions and words of those who make certain claims.
I John 4:1-3 says;
quote:
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
You cite the fruits of the Spirit as spiritual evidence of true believers, and that is correct. However, even those fruits are externally visible. And I would submit that the fruits of the antichrist will not remain hidden forever. Truth always reveals itself. Counterfeits can remain camoflaged for a time, but even they must come out into the light, only to be exposed. The Scripture tells us that "Surely [our] sins will find [us] out."
|
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 15:17:10
| You are correct when you say that Jesus warned us to be on the watch for wolves in sheep's clothing. Well, I would say that the wolves will eventually expose themselves as wolves when they begin to bear their claws. Those can be perceived in the natural. It really doesn't take a Ph.D. in theology to figure out the certain obvious things. (With all due respect to your position, Shred...I do not mean to sound curt.)
I would disagree, with certain limitations, on your analysis that "judging by outward appearances/works would seem deceptive at best ". That would be true if that were the only criteria for making such judgements. But I don't think it is so much deceptive, as it is incomplete. You are correct, there are plenty of moral people who are lost and going to hell. The Scripture tells us that "the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh." It would seem that eventually, those that are lost without Jesus would manifest the fruits of rebellion in their flesh, and be totally oblivious to the lack of truth in their lives. Those of us who are constantly living in the light, keeping our eyes "fixed on Jesus", would eventually be able to distinguish the genuine from the counterfeit. |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 15:18:44
| quote:
I think the difference with people like Clapton , Jackson Brown , Leon Russell & all the others that were happy to jump on the 'Jesus band wagon' back in the 70's .....was that really 30 yrs ago ?? lol , is that back then , the idea was popular , the Jesus movement was in full swing . I wouldn't say it's as popular today to call yourself a Christian , {well certainly not down here it's not }, as it was at the height of the Jesus movement . Incidentally , the song by Clapton ' Presence of the Lord ' , was actually a song about him finding a place where the police couldn't find him , so he could take his drugs .
On this point, I would agree with you, whole heartedly. Yes, it was popular for people to "get religion", or however the slogans went. Even Jesus dealt with that issue in His time here. There was one who told Jesus that he would follow Him anywhere. Jesus replied, "Foxes have holes, and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay His head." That meant that the cost of following Him may ver well be all of our comforts and pleasures, even some as simple as a pillow and shelter. Too many folks during the "Jesus Movement" wanted to have a convenient Jesus, but not the Lord Jesus. And when they discovered that we must "count the cost" of following Him, they deserted Him.
As far as your aside about Clapton, your statement alone shows that you have judged by an external evidence (which I do not think is wrong, by the way...I am not pointing a finger of criticism, just making an observation), and one that is not hard to identify.
|
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 15:20:07
| quote:
I guess the question I have , is if these people are lying , why ? money ? , fame ? , power ? all these things they already have . I'd agree , if you have a problem with alcohol it would seem foolishness to frequent places or situations where you'll find yourself tempted , Jesus said to run from temptation , not to it . But then , if Jesus has just set you free from an addiction , isn't it only 'natural' that you'd want to share your faith with those that are still where you once were ?
Surely I would agree that if you were delivered from alcohol, or drugs, or whatever, it would seem only natural that you would want to go back to "ground zero" (so to speak), and share with those you once related to. But I would think that God would have to be the one who would clear you for that assignment. And let's take this a step further; Let us suppose that you had an issue with pornography. And let us say that God has completely delivered you from even the desire to want pornography. I sincerely doubt that it would be prudent for you to go on the set of a porn movie, or go into the adult bookstores, and try and reveal the Gospel. I am sorry, but I doubt you would be focused on the Gospel, delivered though you may be. I truly think that some things from the old life need to be completely cut off, burned up, and cast aside.
Again, I must reiterate that I have no problem with some of the musicians who have chosen to remain in their repective bands, even after their conversion. I am not equating them doing so with compromising their faith. However, I think that there must be some external evidences of internal change, or else those individuals will not only be ineffective in their witness, but also produce a negative impact upon the rest of the Faith.
|
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| Shredhead
Junior Member
Australia
322 Posts | Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 05:57:10
| Sir Axe-a-lot lol , if we're talking about Spiritual discernment , which I'm sure you are , the need to examine anothers actions would no doubt be misleading . Spiritual discernment is a work of Gods' Holy Spirit , not ones observational skills or scriptual knowledge .
While I agree that actions & words can be a reasonable facilitator as to a persons eternal direction , I also believe they can be misleading/deceptive .Allow me to go to an extreme , if Ghandi were to have claimed to be saved , would not his words/actions confirm each other ?
Yes , 1 John 4 1-3 says to test the spirits , but what is that test ? Asking for a positive confession of faith . Just because I see our prime minister in church 2 weeks before an election ,doesn't mean I believe him to be of the faithful . I believe the same rule could be applied to other famous people , if not more so . The picture we see on tv is painted by the media & I think it would be unfair to judge a person based on those images alone .
Alice Cooper attributed his over night deliverence from alcoholism & drug addiction to our God , this same God , he claims to follow . I think that alone passes the test of 1 John ? Don't get me wrong ,I whole heartedly agree that an internal change should have an external evidence . I'm just saying that sometimes the external evidence can be misleading & isn't always a true indicator of the change that's happenING on the inside .
I agree you don't need to be a theologian to discover all the wolves , but I think if they were that plain to see , we wouldn't have been warned . Aren't we also told that many will come in His name , even claiming to be Jesus , & that when we hear them , don't even go to see them , because if possible , they would deceive even the elect ?
I judge Clapton by his own words , not his actions . He said the song was about taking drugs , I've never actually seen him do it .
I still hold to my opinion , that the best indicator to a persons eternal reward , is their motivation , why they did something , not what they did . I've known plenty of people that have done the right thing , for the wrong reasons .They either want to please their wives ,or their pastor , or their friends , not Jesus . What's their reward for that ? nothing that'll survive the fire .
I don't think it would be prudent for any Christian to go onto the set of a porn movie , past problems or not . The reason ? because God has called sex sacred , we've secularized it . The same can't be said for alcohol or drugs etc . To me ,that's the difference , & is why I think it unfair to compare the two .
Now , at the end of all this rambling let me reiterate lol , I agree an internal change should have an outward evidence , but I believe we as Christians would be in error to soley rely on that as an evidence .
|
but some of you need to be awakened and slapped silly - William D Rauser | |
| Shredhead
Junior Member
Australia
322 Posts | Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 06:12:21
| Anon said ; I ponder this question too. The only answer that I've been able to come up with - that makes any real sense - is that they are looking for acceptance.
The world may say they don't care about us. They may score us and our ways. But, I suspect they are trying to get God's approval via proxy. (Or maybe I need to go put on another pot of coffee and think on this one some more. )
I take mine white with 2 , thanks ..... & if you have any of the Oriols , that'd be cool too lol .
Maybe as Axeman has said , they haven't counted the cost , & don't know the real Jesus , just a Hollywood one . So they therefore think that God blesses what they do , when in reality they've been led down the garden path by their own desires , or by satan . If they were after acceptance , don't their record sales give them that ? |
but some of you need to be awakened and slapped silly - William D Rauser |
Edited by - Shredhead on 25 Sep 2006 06:13:53 | |
| Shredhead
Junior Member
Australia
322 Posts | Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 06:18:01
| | OOOOOHH , now I get it . The time shown on the posts is your time , not the time here ...... no wonder the third cd is taking so long , you guys are already 14 hrs behind us lol . |
but some of you need to be awakened and slapped silly - William D Rauser | |
| AnonJr
Absent-minded Webmaster
USA
621 Posts | Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 06:38:58
| quote:
Originally posted by Shredhead
If they were after acceptance , don't their record sales give them that ?
Not necessarily. The record sales just say that people are buying their records. Lots of people watch Tom Cruise movies with out actually liking the guy or sanctioning his chosen lifestyle - same with other forms of media.
Plus, I would contend that despite all evidence to the contrary, a person of the world who is honest with himself seems to recognize that there is something in Christianity that they really ought to be striving for. I seem to remember reading something about the law being inscribed in the hearts of all men...
Lastly, yes the time stamp on the posts is EST. |
There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole government working for you.
- Will Rogers | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 18:35:42
| quote:
I take mine white with 2 , thanks ..... & if you have any of the Oriols , that'd be cool too lol .
Anybody who takes his coffee white has got deeper issues than discernment...lol
We have Oriols here...but I don't think you want birds in your coffee (or hot cream...)
...Or maybe you want the baseball team...? |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| Shredhead
Junior Member
Australia
322 Posts | Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 03:12:04
| Hmmm , I discern you're trying to have a go at an Aussie .
Real men don't play ball games , we race ! & if you're privileged enough to be Aussie , you win !! |
but some of you need to be awakened and slapped silly - William D Rauser | |
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